Pretty much agree with everything you have said. Good luck though - when you make these points in sm commentary, you get a barrage of abuse from both sides telling you how you’re wrong. Chomsky said it best - the loss of rational discourse is an existential threat to western society.
Israel was born in order to provide Jews with a safe haven after the horrors of WWII. But it DID displace Palestinians who lived there for centuries. Obviously, the Arab countries did nothing to help the Palestinians. But Israel’s memory should remind them, and us, the need for security. Building kibbutzim in Palestinian territory has shown no regard for the rights of any other people. Netanyahu thumbs his nose at UN sanctions , accepts US aid and keeps expanding. It’s a disrespectful disregard of its own history.
This seems a little pro Israel heavy. I appreciate it nonetheless but the treatment of the Palestinians before October 7th was barely mentioned. How about the thousands of Palestinian hostages? I also think saying Israel didn't target citizens is wildly naive.
I wonder what the effect would be if Americans, most of whom were too young or deceived by our media and our government, were reminded of Israel's intentional, false-flag attack on a non-combatant American ship on June 8, 1967? Using unmarked aircraft and torpedo boats, they killed 34 and wounded 171 American servicemen. They tried to blame the incident on a "mistake" which was widely discounted by the evidence. We helped Israel cover up the incident, even to the extent of covering over 1000 missile holes and repainting the entire vessel so that Americans couldn't see the actual damage. What is shocking is that our ship launched nuclear armed aircraft targeting Cairo (which Israel tried to blame) which were recalled 6 minutes out after Israel "fessed up" to her mistake. Actual tapes of all radio transmissions exist of the incident but they have been highly classified by the U.S. for 57 years. I still see the blood of the dead sloshing back and forth on the deck as we evacuated the wounded.
In point 1 you justify ethnic cleansing, the displacement of Palestinians, by saying that Jews need a state of their own. Then you repudiate the displacement of Jews to allow Palestinians back, saying that this constitutes ethnic cleansing! Next you toy with the 2-state solution but exclude it from discussion by claiming that 'we are far away from it right now', thus adopting the hypocritical stance of those western powers who pay lip service to it but would never countenance the fundamental step necessary to achieve it - displacement of millions of Jewish occupiers.
You condemn the Hamas attacks but fail to put them in the context of the 100+ years Judeo-Palestinian War. That war, an attack by Jews on Palestinians, has deprived the latter of land, water and sovereignty. Your proposals don't begin to redress that great injustice.
Who are you agreeing with here? Other genocide apologists? LOL
There has not been a rise in antisemitism but rather, since Israel has been increasing their rate of committing crimes against humanity, people with eyes and ears and mouths have become more CRITICAL OF ISRAEL. And rightly so.
Once Israel has proven it is willing to send its alleged war criminals to court to face those charges, then maybe the two-state solution can move ahead.
What I worry most about is how deeply the Isreali hated and mistrust of Palestinians runs. The demonization of the Arab peoples is so ingrained (and in my view, in such a vile way) that a change in culture for Israel is necessary if a 2 state solution is to work. I have my doubts. Tit for tat will likely persist until they have no functioning society.
I hate to throw a wet fish into this conversation, but what about rebuilding Gaza? Who’s going to do that? The Palestinians have no way to rebuild. Will the Israelis help rebuild? Will the US? The Arab nations? This appears to be one of those issues that will go unresolved indefinitely. Yes, there needs to be peace, but there also needs to be money and materials to rebuild what the Israelis destroyed.
If the world expects the Palestinians to do this on their own, any peace there is now will be short lived.
Judaism is a religion, but given hundreds of years of antisemitism and exclusion of Jews in other nations where they lived, culminating with the holocaust, it also became a national and ethnic identity.
This implies that there was no Jewish national or ethnic identity without antisemitism. Given that national and ethnic identity forms culture, this implies that Jewish culture only exists because of antismitism. Great job, in your first sentence you completely erased all of Jewish history and culture and reduced it to victimhood.
Next section you mentioned settlements, of course. Why are settlements such an impediment to a Palestinian state. This has never really been explained, just taken as a given. I would love to see an actual explanation.
I'll stop there just because I have other things to do.
Ilan, I like everything you are saying. I would like to add that there needs to be a clear unambiguous response from the Palestinians stating that they fully accept Israel as being a JEWISH state.
I agree with everything you've said. It's all common sense and humanitarian.
Pretty much agree with everything you have said. Good luck though - when you make these points in sm commentary, you get a barrage of abuse from both sides telling you how you’re wrong. Chomsky said it best - the loss of rational discourse is an existential threat to western society.
I agree with your comments that are thoughtful and reasoned.
Israel was born in order to provide Jews with a safe haven after the horrors of WWII. But it DID displace Palestinians who lived there for centuries. Obviously, the Arab countries did nothing to help the Palestinians. But Israel’s memory should remind them, and us, the need for security. Building kibbutzim in Palestinian territory has shown no regard for the rights of any other people. Netanyahu thumbs his nose at UN sanctions , accepts US aid and keeps expanding. It’s a disrespectful disregard of its own history.
You are right.
Great first draft. I would add that a better future for Palestinians requires not only a reformed Palestinian Authority but also getting rid of Hamas.
This seems a little pro Israel heavy. I appreciate it nonetheless but the treatment of the Palestinians before October 7th was barely mentioned. How about the thousands of Palestinian hostages? I also think saying Israel didn't target citizens is wildly naive.
I wonder what the effect would be if Americans, most of whom were too young or deceived by our media and our government, were reminded of Israel's intentional, false-flag attack on a non-combatant American ship on June 8, 1967? Using unmarked aircraft and torpedo boats, they killed 34 and wounded 171 American servicemen. They tried to blame the incident on a "mistake" which was widely discounted by the evidence. We helped Israel cover up the incident, even to the extent of covering over 1000 missile holes and repainting the entire vessel so that Americans couldn't see the actual damage. What is shocking is that our ship launched nuclear armed aircraft targeting Cairo (which Israel tried to blame) which were recalled 6 minutes out after Israel "fessed up" to her mistake. Actual tapes of all radio transmissions exist of the incident but they have been highly classified by the U.S. for 57 years. I still see the blood of the dead sloshing back and forth on the deck as we evacuated the wounded.
In point 1 you justify ethnic cleansing, the displacement of Palestinians, by saying that Jews need a state of their own. Then you repudiate the displacement of Jews to allow Palestinians back, saying that this constitutes ethnic cleansing! Next you toy with the 2-state solution but exclude it from discussion by claiming that 'we are far away from it right now', thus adopting the hypocritical stance of those western powers who pay lip service to it but would never countenance the fundamental step necessary to achieve it - displacement of millions of Jewish occupiers.
You condemn the Hamas attacks but fail to put them in the context of the 100+ years Judeo-Palestinian War. That war, an attack by Jews on Palestinians, has deprived the latter of land, water and sovereignty. Your proposals don't begin to redress that great injustice.
Who are you agreeing with here? Other genocide apologists? LOL
There has not been a rise in antisemitism but rather, since Israel has been increasing their rate of committing crimes against humanity, people with eyes and ears and mouths have become more CRITICAL OF ISRAEL. And rightly so.
Once Israel has proven it is willing to send its alleged war criminals to court to face those charges, then maybe the two-state solution can move ahead.
You have summarized my thoughts exactly.
What I worry most about is how deeply the Isreali hated and mistrust of Palestinians runs. The demonization of the Arab peoples is so ingrained (and in my view, in such a vile way) that a change in culture for Israel is necessary if a 2 state solution is to work. I have my doubts. Tit for tat will likely persist until they have no functioning society.
I hate to throw a wet fish into this conversation, but what about rebuilding Gaza? Who’s going to do that? The Palestinians have no way to rebuild. Will the Israelis help rebuild? Will the US? The Arab nations? This appears to be one of those issues that will go unresolved indefinitely. Yes, there needs to be peace, but there also needs to be money and materials to rebuild what the Israelis destroyed.
If the world expects the Palestinians to do this on their own, any peace there is now will be short lived.
The Israelis have thought of it. That's why, instead of paying any reparations, they intend to continue their ethnic cleansing and genocide shortly.
Why would they do otherwise, when there are so many apologists so eager to publish articles in favour of this atrocity ?
Nothing new here for me, but I guess it's all in one place. Netanyahu should be locked up for war crimes. Instead, he is invited to the White House.
You wrote right up front :
Judaism is a religion, but given hundreds of years of antisemitism and exclusion of Jews in other nations where they lived, culminating with the holocaust, it also became a national and ethnic identity.
This implies that there was no Jewish national or ethnic identity without antisemitism. Given that national and ethnic identity forms culture, this implies that Jewish culture only exists because of antismitism. Great job, in your first sentence you completely erased all of Jewish history and culture and reduced it to victimhood.
Next section you mentioned settlements, of course. Why are settlements such an impediment to a Palestinian state. This has never really been explained, just taken as a given. I would love to see an actual explanation.
I'll stop there just because I have other things to do.
Nothing to argue with, but unless hearts are changed there is no will, no way to see this through.
Ilan, I like everything you are saying. I would like to add that there needs to be a clear unambiguous response from the Palestinians stating that they fully accept Israel as being a JEWISH state.
You do realize that they don't, right?
Good approach, peace making, compromises! And hopefully people open to them.